Don’t do what I did and put up with this rubbish for months. Lovely first date. He asked for a second date and yet over 4 months later it hasn’t happened. Lots of meeting suggestions but any time anything confirmed he’d flake. I finally pulled the plug and stopped replying to all his messages and feel relieved. Just wish I’d done it sooner.


I can't imagine waiting four months for a second date!


Me neither! It took me a while to realise as he seemed plausible. I came to the conclusion that, despite his protests otherwise, he was either in a relationship or I wasn’t his priority or he just wasn’t as interested in me as he said he was. I had told him a while ago that if we weren’t in an established relationship by the end of March I’d move on. He said he was really upset by that as he felt we were really close. That made me laugh as he didn’t know my last name. He’d told me his but never bothered to ask me mine.


Ugh you definitely dodged a bullet


I have had to unlearn so many patterns while dating. I am attentive to friends family and a partner, I value the same. When effort and energy drop, early on, I move on. I also do this when just chatting, if there is no enthusiasm, I am moving on. I am waiting for someone who appreciate my availability because it is a sign of interest. I also pay attention to my inner self warning me that something is off, I move on. I think you handled this with grace. I also find this irritating. Cheers!




I like this. You should be able to treat a potential partner as you would a new friend. No game playing.


Absolutely, if someone decides that I am "too available" they are not the one for me. I appreciate the other person also being attentive and I always have conversations about communication needs, patterns.


I would say this is not a match.


I’m glad you can’t find the article about being”too available”, as articles like that tend to promote game playing behavior, and tell women that men like “the chase” and you should deliberately make yourself scarce even if you want to reach out and make plans, or answer a text, etc. It’s crappy advice. You don’t need to be guessing “what men want” as you date. You just need to be true to yourself, with clear parameters about what you want and will accept from others. I also don’t think that “holding off replying” because you were angry over his forgetting a key aspect about you is ideal, either. Taking time to consider how that landed is one thing, but acting vindictively means you are already too invested. I’d take some time to consider why that was your go-to in that situation. Having said all that, I agree with everyone who’s congratulating you on not settling for a such mediocre interest on his part. I’m more in the “hell yes!” camp of dating, where you both are reaching out with pretty much equal enthusiasm. This certainly wasn’t that.


When someone forgets a key detail you shared like that you don’t drink, it’s almost always because they’re dating multiple people and can’t remember all the details about each one.


You are on point!!! That is exactly what that mean. They texting multiple people too. I call that fishing which isn't dating.


You're in his rotation but not his first choice. If a guy is really into you he will be the one asking to meet, not the other way around. Cut this one loose, he's a waste of your time.


I’m having to remind myself of this at the moment. I matched with a couple guys, have done some messaging, but their follow-up is seriously lacking. Old me would’ve worked hard to keep the conversations going, not anymore.


Only match their energy and effort, never exceed it.


It doesn't sound that you're too enthused about this person (and likewise). Don't waste time over it and move on.


He had other plans for tonight that fell through. Forget about this guy, he’s a dud.


Thumbs up emoji? Fuck that dude. He’s dating all over and you’re a second option.


Exactly this.


Very low effort. Or just his personality. Some people operate like that - make plans on the spur of the moment. This early into getting to know someone if I suggested a specific date (Sunday) and there was no follow through, I’d be done. Not out of any anger or hurt. I’m looking to spend time with intentional adults who follow through on plans. And I’d shrug and realize he didn’t fall into that category.


If you feel this irritated with him and you’ve only had one date, then you probably ought to just move on.


It’s a no


People who don't plan for themselves are fine. Those who don't consider other people when planning are, at a minimum, inconsiderate. Aside from not divorced, "spontaneous" is a word that makes me run for the hills.


You're wasting your time on this one. He's not interested. Block him... or he'll pop up SUPER interested a month from now when he's burned through the women who have his eye.


>Since the first meetup, texts have been sporadic at best. That alone is enough to move on, he's just not that interested. If he was, he would have been trying to plan the second date/meet the day after the first, and those plans would be firm. He'd also remember you don't drink.


Thanks. Appreciate the validation.


In the end, everyone had suggested tolerances. If this doesn't work for you, it doesn't work. One hundred people can tell you it's totally fine but how much does that matter when your gut is telling you it's *not* fine? Or vice versa. Either way, you can always have a brief convo to ascertain what's happening on his end but that may or may not yield you the answers you're looking for.


I'm on the fence. First, full disclosure, I despise the thumbs up emoji. I consider it dismissive, shutting down any conversation. That may just be a me thing though and I wouldn't expect that others instinctively know that about me. If he meant that emoji as an equivalent to "sounds good to me," he may have been waiting/ expecting you to come through with more details. Also, I would be fine if someone gave me a full day's notice about an impending get together for a drink. It wasn't a same night thing, it was for the next evening. I would not have held off on messaging back until the next morning because it may be perceived as game playing. In terms of you not drinking, I don't drink. It doesn't mean that I don't go out with friends who drink, including meeting them at the pub, where every one of them has every intention of drinking (not just having one). So I don't know if he just assumed you wouldn't mind meeting for a drink and you would have what you wanted and he would have what he wanted. Certainly he wasn't making a ton of effort, but I might not consider it as next to no effort either. I think I might have given him a chance if I felt there was a potential attraction there.


There was a story in The NY Times that I now can’t find about how to end text conversations. Bc there’s not a universal “bye” like on the phone, where you wrap it up (maybe not universal. My dad would just hang up the phone). Anyway, the thumbs up or okay emoji is supposed to indicate the end of the conversation for many people.


Instead of you saying "maybe we can grab a bite on Sunday" you should say "do you want to grab a bite at XXX place at YYYY time?" That way if he says no, and doesn't follow it up with a similar firm offer, then you know for certain he isn't interested, rather than waiting for you to show interest. I don't understand why you got the hump over an invitation to "have a drink" - you can get a non alcoholic beverage, it goes without saying, he was asking you out on a date for the second time in a row and you ignored him... I avoid women that play games by not being "too available", and make me jump hoops, set up all the date ideas and get offended if I say "a drink" and they perceive it as a hostile offer because they avoid alcohol. So yes, you are probably not meant to be for each other.


Agree with everyone here. Someone told me- and I still go by it- “no response is a response”. Bye. Next. Moving on


This is a big no for me. The complete lack of effort of explanation on why they have not contacted me would be an issue. It is an indicator of future behavior and current interest or some that plays games in most cases.


I’m going to put myself in The Guy’s shoes. Let’s call the lady Haley. >Friday I sent him a text saying “hey, happy st Patrick’s day - maybe we can grab a bite on Sunday” and all I got was a thumbs up response. Sunday rolls around and nothing, no text, no call, no plans. If I got this text, I would be wondering why Haley asked me for a date, I gave it a green light, and then Haley dropped the ball (i.e never planned it). Then I come out with asking for a specific date at a specific time… and Haley’s answer is essentially “Not good enough and you didn’t remember everything about me.” No counter, no initiative, just “Try again, Guy.” I would get the message that Haley and I are a total mismatch and she would not be hearing from me again. I’d think she is low-effort. As to grabbing a drink... I don’t particularly care for chocolate. Know who forgets? Everyone. Absolutely every person I have ever known. But enjoying chocolate is a pretty typical thing (like casual Happy Hour in early dating) and I just remind them. No biggie.


I find this a thoroughly underrated comment….despite your ‘bad advice’ warning lol


Good points. It would be helpful to hear OPs take-did she offer more follow up texts? If someone reached out and suggested we meet, and I expressed interest, I would then expect her to offer a time and date since she initiated the request.


It seems to me he should have followed up with more than a thumbs up if he was truly interested.


Doesn’t sound like either of them was really all that interested.


You are one of many and he forgets the initial conversation details so you blur into all the others (who do drink). Move on...


You say texting has been sporadic, that's really not unusual. Some people just don't like texting that much. You don't say who has initiated texts, if just you I would take that as a lack of interest. Assuming it has been sporadic on both ends, and looking from his perspective; you asked him about Sunday, he said yes but you didn't follow up. Also from his perspective he asked to meet the next day, you responded the next day and a little pissy. You can meet for a drink and not drink alcohol. Just Sunday I met someone at a bar but neither one of us had alcohol. Bars are often convenient places to meet in the evening even if you don't "drink". Perhaps you two just aren't a fit, but if you are interested you might need to be a little more flexible early on.


24 hours isn't exactly a "last minute" meetup. And you can meet for a drink even if you don't drink alcohol - that sounds being deliberately difficult. It feels like rather low effort on both sides in all honesty.


Texting at 9:30 at night suggests he texted after a date that didn’t go well.


It's easy to imagine the worst motives in people.


Interesting take! 🤔


Or he just finished work or watching a movie or doing some hobby or going to the gym or any other million reasons why. People are allowed to have lives.


*ding ding ding*


Some people refuse to plan in advance. They want to live “spontaneously” That doesn’t mean you have to live that way


I hate texting in relationships…it’s too easy to add a tone, an assumption, or an attitude when there is none. So, instead of texting, call him! Be communicative. Ask him. You have the right to know so that neither of you waste your time. But try not to assume he doesn’t like you…he may just have something going on and can’t discuss it right now.


I’m not a fan of texting either. Just pick up the phone a call me. I’m not going back and forth with a texting conversation.


If it’s this exasperating to simply arrange a dinner, move on with your head held high. Dating is not really about being accepted by someone, it’s whether someone is acceptable to you! No harm no foul. Just sail on. The next one might be great!


Wrong about a drink? Yes. You could order a non-alcoholic drink…fit from what you said about texting? Either he playing the field or is married


You are not wrong for being irritated. I would never use someone's interest in me or interest in seeing me as a way to get back at them or to dole out punishment for something they did, or didn't do. The view for me is always best from the highroad, and I'll accommodate always doesn't mean I'm available for anything


You’re totally right. You’re showing him how you want to be treated, and if that’s not what he is able to do, wish him well and move on. He’s showing you how he’ll treat you. Believe him.


This guy has several women on his list and it trying to keep them all viable until he finds the one where it all connects. When he texted you at 9:30 about the drink, he was either just getting home from a date that did not pan out and he it onto the next one, or he just got a text from a woman telling him she does not want to see him again. He's got too many spinning plates going, and can't keep track of them all. Full disclosure: I was this guy once. Until I set up stricter boundaries, I accepted all "likes" and figured, why not look into all of them? When I found myself setting up a list of names with clues as to who they were when they texted or called, I knew I was out of control and probably hurting others.


The dreaded “thumbs up” response to a text. Not a bad thing from a friend, but a lack of investment from someone you’re dating.


A couple of thoughts. Is he being low effort, or are you? I get it that you don’t want to put a lot of time into a low effort partner. I generally have a 24 hr rule for texting/chats. If no response in 24 hours, we are probably not aligned and it is best to move on. It allows me to have a simple decision process without torturing myself


The thumbs up for the Sunday meet would bother me. Then no communication on Sunday would be all I need to move on. Being spontaneous and wanting to meet for a drink (do they really need to say you can have a non-alcoholic drink? That seems super ridiculous to me) wouldn't be an issue at all for me if the Sunday thing hasn't happened first. A no-call, no-show on that Sunday would be the end for me.


Yea a thumbs up I'd be done myself.


If there are others who have more of a mutual interest, why worry about this one? Plus I'm assuming that this man has more of a mutual interest with others as well.


Clearly I’m not worried, second to last paragraph. I ask because I’m trying to learn and because others might learn as well. Not everyone starts out in dating (even at this age) knowing it all, sometimes we need a touch-point to serve as a sanity check. MOST on here are open and accepting of this fact.


I wouldn’t bother wasting my time with someone who texted me at 9:30pm to meet up the next day for drinks. Besides the fact that you don’t drink. Advanced notice is required, because like you said you have a life. If he was serious he would have responded with suggested plans for Sunday and not just a thumbs up. Move on.


It looks like you invited him out with only under 2 days notice yourself, and St Paddy’s Day does involve drinking alcohol for the majority of people. I’m just suggesting that there’s a little wriggle room here if he misunderstood. If you’d given him ‘a few days’ notice and suggested a brunch instead, I’d be expecting him to follow your lead on your dating preferences. But unless you’re clear I think it’s unfair to expect it, at this early point. Also to add, inviting you out ‘for a drink’ is a social convention. Doesn’t necessarily mean he has forgotten you’re a teetotaller. Or that a teetotaller can’t drink something else at that venue. I say yes to coffee dates, even though I haven’t touched it for decades and will order tea.


I'm with you, I can't do low effort or crumbs. NOPE.


I think you’re not being honest with yourself when you write that you were fine with his low effort. I think your irritation with his low effort is reflected in your deliberate delaying of a response to ask to meet. And I think you’d be well served to eject from this relationship.


LOL I think my response to the drink suggestion would have been along the lines of "I think you must have me confused with someone else." And let it sit with him to unravel.


If he had been divorced for less than one year, would that be a deal breaker for you? I am just curious. I am honestly trying to learn what people my age think about dating. Edit: whoever keeps downvoting me, this is a forum for advice and support. Spend your time in “pill” and incel communities.


Maybe because you’re hijacking the thread.


I asked OP an honest question, because I wanted their opinion. That is a legitimate question.


It’s hijacking because you asked her a question about your situation instead of contributing to the post at-hand. I suggest creating your own post. That’s standard protocol and you’ll probably get plenty of input.


Let them decide that.




This *is* low effort. Don't waste your time with low effort men.


From what was written, she matched his effort and he hers. She asked to meet two days in advance and he responded affirmatively, but is annoyed that he only asked one day in advance.


Giving nothing but a thumbs up response to her suggestion of getting together on Sunday for a date *is* low effort. He could have at least given her a short sentence, (i.e., "Sure, that would be great. What would you like to do on Sunday?").


He could have, sure. But maybe he was in the middle of something (It was St Patrick's Day, he might have been out). I can also see his side of it. In his mind he's thinking "well I gave her a thumbs up but she didn't follow up so she must not be very interested". Obviously I can't know what really transpired. He could/should have followed up but she could/should have as well. As I put in another comment, these two just don't seem to be a good fit.


Some women expect the man to be the primary pursuer in the first few dates. He didn't make any attempts to get together with her for the weekend, even though they hadn't had a date for a week. I'd call that low interest or low effort.


I agree that he put in little effort, just pointing out that she matched it. She is irritated that she was not pursued.


IMO he’s taking you for granted. I find it hard to believe it would improve over time. If this guy were a peacock, he would have no tail feathers at all.


I’m curious—why is this being downvoted? His apathy / lack of even a modest effort looks to me like he takes her for granted—he expects her to be there no matter what he does. And this is at the start of the relationship, when most people are trying to make a good impression. If you’re that lazy or apathetic at this stage of the game, why would he be expected to improve later on?


Did he respond?


It's not you. This is clearly the wrong guy. He clearly is not a gentleman or respectful. Aim higher! We all deserve people who are respectful of us.


You’re his backup date in case the more desirable dates cancel or if his friends want to go out. He doesn’t want to be tied down to you in case he gets a better offer. He’s not that into you or this could just the chaotic mess that is his head and life. One of those I-don’t-make-plans guys. Mr. Happy go lucky. Gotta be spontaneous and not dragged down. Maybe adhd. He’ll get back to you when he gets bored. If you want a considerate guy look elsewhere. He’ll just think you are a drag with all those demands, too soon for this drama. We’re not even supposed to have heavy conversations like this for 6 months. Stop being so clingy


You don't need permission from anyone to feel irritated or slighted. You either do or you don't. Go with whichever one rings true for you. ​ This is why OLD isn't the best option for happy coupling up. No one seems to know who they are, and if they do, they always need permission for what "the reasonable" reaction might be so that they might "play their cards right" to maximize their options. This is NOT "finding a mate". This is "being agreeable to join the majority to avoid rejection".


That’s not OLD though. That’s daring.