Chuck into a ING high interest account. Free money
https://www.ing.com.au/savings/savings-maximiser.html
4.5-4.7% return pa
I wouldn’t fuck with your house deposit on essentially what is a casino.
Wow, all it took was a bear market to turn people's attitudes of ETF's from a legitimate investment to a 'casino'. I agree that one shouldn't throw their money in shares for a short period of time especially a house deposit but I remember when the bull market was still raging and everyone was advocating for VDHG/DHHF. Times sure have changed since then.
I don't think it's because there's a change from bull to bear market but rather that interest rates have rose so much that keeping money in a high interest account is becoming more and more of a competitive option depending on the situation.
At 4.5% you’re still losing money to inflation in a HISA at the moment, I don’t agree that it’s particularly competitive.
In fact before HISAs paid .5% and inflation was about the same, now they pay 4.5% and inflation is 7%. In real terms you’re significantly worse off.
You shouldn't be thinking about inflation when you invest (unless you are trying to gage future interest rate changes or invest in inflation specific products). Your money gets eroded in real terms whether its in HYSA or shares.
4.5% is an excellent risk free return, particularly in such an uncertain market. I don't think anyone can be faulted for taking that option right now.
Agree but think the context that you’re still losing to inflation is important. You’re losing less than cash, or stocks *over the last 6 months*, but there’s nothing to say the market hasn’t now correctly priced future inflation and that your equity returns will far outstrip a HISA or inflation going forward.
It’s not a good investment, it’s just the least horrible option in the very short term.
That's true, and irrelevant to this situation. A stock ETF PROBABLY gives a higher return over a long period of time. But if you only have 5 years, you are gambling your house down payment in equities, plain and simple.
The ETF gives you a chance to beat inflation and it gives you a chance to lose much more, inflation adjusted, than the CD or HISA also.
Also, he has 5 years and inflation appears to be disapating. If inflation stay elevated, then trust me, his stocks are not going to be better, and probably worse.
I agree but think you’re overstating the case. [96% of 5 year periods on the asx200 have had a positive return (1980-2018 sample).](https://www.dimensional.com/au-en/insights/the-uncommon-average) A HISA will guarantee an ~0% real return, but an index will be highly likely to also return a positive result over that timeframe and an expected real return of about 5% (if past returns are similar to future)
That’s a possible outcome, but unlikely in the scheme of things. [~80% of 4 year periods from 1980-2018 on the asx300 were positive.](https://www.dimensional.com/au-en/insights/the-uncommon-average) The recent downturn is probably skewing your results.
Yeah I remember way before COVID (long time lurker here and former active poster with new account) when the RBA kept cutting interest rates everyone was looking for any alternative to savings accounts and a lot of people rushed to ETFs and hell even crypto because of that. Now that interest rates have risen along with bank interest people are rushing back to savings accounts since they don't see the volatility of the share market as worth the risk anymore. I think that the bogle heads will continue DCA into ETF's but most people now will stick to savings accounts and term deposits. After all we are humans and we want the safest best bang for our buck. That and with the rising cost of living and inflation is making people are even more risk adverse than normal.
>I remember when the bull market was still raging and everyone was advocating for VDHG/DHHF. Times sure have changed since then.
I dont think anyone (sensible) ever said invest in shares if your timeframe is under 5 years and you definitely needed all of the money at the end of that 5 years
5 years is a bit of a grey zone; much under that as a timeframe and shares are not really the right investment, and over 5 years then shares are good choice. 5 years is on the cusp, but if you absolutely need the money then that is a factor
For the OP, though, if he can cope with it turning into $80k without it being financially (or emotionally) devastating, then DHHF and similar are certainly reasonable options. Perhaps even split it 50/50
It's just people who go with the crowd. Most buy when things are good and sell when they are bad. The exact OPPOSITE of what they should. While it's definitely not what you should be putting short term money into. ETFs are a better investment now than they were last year
100% this. ING does have a 100k limit mind you so could be an idea to split the savings between say this and an account offering similar interest (e.g. Macquarie)
As others have said, the share market is a long term gain. You certainly aren’t going to make huge profits in a 5 year timeframe if you were to. Particularly if you are fairly new to it all.
Best of luck!
You did not.
The 4.7% is taxed and inflation is expected to peak at 8%.
You have guaranteed OP a net loss of probably around 5%, not "free money ". I suggest you familiarise yourself with section 766B of the corps act and also stop giving anything which may be considered advice because you have no idea what you're talking about.
Nothing on average, your least worst option is [still an index fund](https://youtu.be/1a3XnvRCcVo), but HISAs are fine for the very short term as long as you’re happy with an expected return of ~0%
Cash will very rarely out perform inflation, especially once adjusted for tax. For 5 years the net purchasing power decrease of cash makes it a poor choice for 100% of ops funds.
Most lower risk diversified portfolios should be aiming for around CPI plus 1 or so percent. The historical volatility of these funds varies of course but they usually sit around maximum negative returns of 10% for a single year. Lonsec has good data if youre able to access it. We're also likely going to see a pick up in bond prices this year and indeed some of this is already happening. Were I OP, and I'm not, I'd be looking at a cash and bond heavy portfolio and also be holding something along the lines of 30-50% in Australian and international equities. The things happening in markets today are very unlikely to be the things we're worried about in 5 years. Unless we have a structural change in the way we treat property in this country there's also a good enough chance property prices will rebound.
You said a diversified ETF is essentially the same as a casino, so no I wouldn’t go so far as to describe what you said as good financial advice.
To be clear I don’t think he should invest his house deposit in an ETF for a five year time frame, but comparing a diversified ETF to gambling is just bullshit
5 yr period OP is on the money with some broad global growth based etf.
Additional consideration, If you think value does better than growth in inflationary period (generally accepted to be the case) then you might want to look at a value based etf rather than growth
reasoning based on...
If things go to more to shit and central banks keep interest rates high then its because of inflation, so the actual return is ing rate (4.5% or whatever) - inflation (currently more than that) so those ING accounts are actually losing money in real terms currently.
Share market has already priced in current levels of shitness and we are probably looking at recovery next 24 mnths.
Assuming that is wrong, ie continued shitness then sharemarket probably treads water (giver or take simliar to a HISA that is losing money each year in real terms)
Assuming that is right, ie recovery, ING accounts will drop their rate as rba eases back and sharemarket will increase more than this (10% +)
It is trash but can't you get a web interface for it so you can manage it on your computer
So far I've been just tolerating the app and haven't bothered calling them up to activate the online web laptop one.
I far as I understand, Nope. And don't think you can call the regular BoQ number. All they can do is tell you another number you can call, they can't even transfer you. They really are 2 separate entities
When it says deposit 1000 from an external source to qualify does it mean deposit 1000 every month to qualify or does it mean you have to have a minimum of 1000 dollars in the account to qualify. It’s a bit confusing because another criteria is to grow your savings each calendar month which would naturally happen if you put in 1000 a month id assume
After you open a saving maximiser account, you have 2 accounts, including the orange everyday account (default checking account with debit card). For 4.55% interest:
-You need to deposit 1000 to either of those accounts every month.
-You also need to use your card 5 times in that month by purchasing ( fully settled).
-And the money in your your maximiser account needs to be higher than the previous month (not including the interest). But if you transfer that all or some of that 1000 in your maximiser, This step will be covered.
So the idea is to grow slowly every month. Compound interest. But obviously the limit is upto $100,000.
This. My strategy with this account is to have part of my salary paid into the account, pay 5 regular monthly payments from my card on the account, set and forget, and finally transfer everything else to the saver.
Typically with high-interest savings accounts, it's that you need to **deposit** x(in this case $1000) per month into the account to keep the bonus, not: just have $1000 in the account.
Edit: So with something like ubank, it's 0.10%p.a base rate on a savings account and if you add $200 per month into that account then the bonus is 3.75%p.a. which would give you 3.85%p.a overall.
Just double-check with all these and look for the terms and conditions, some will only be introductory rates for like the first 6 months and then they might drop down to 3%.
From what I’m reading it seems like you have to deposit 1000 dollars with your orange everyday account, and when it says “deposit” it means basically anything that I think includes just getting paid by your employer. If you do that, grow your savings account by any amount and make 5 purchases with their card you qualify. But I’m still not sure.
The important information section states “deposit atleast $1000 from an external source to any personal ING account in your name (excluding living super, personal loans and orange on)”
This seems to me like you don’t have to grow your savings by 1000 but have 1000 dollars of cashflow into you ING accounts each month
You're spot on. I only grow my savings at ING by $20 a month and still get the increased interest rate (as long as you have $1000 incoming into your everyday account and make your 5 transactions).
Yeah I just set mine up. I had a decent chunk in etfs that I pulled in August when it hit a high. So I reckon I’ll keep it in this account until Q2, 2023. If no recesssion I’ll just dump it all back into ETFs
Ok 4.5% sounds good and it’s actually now 4.55% but there are a lot of “conditions” including depositing $1000+ every month. Here are all the conditions:
Highest variable rate
For customers who also have an Orange Everyday bank account and do these things each month:
1. Deposit $1,000+ (from an external account)
2. Make 5+ card purchases (settled, not pending) and
3. Grow their nominated Savings Maximiser balance (excluding interest).
Available on one account for balances up to $100,000 with the additional variable rate applied the month after eligibility criteria has been met.
While it is definitely safer in cash and this is a 'high risk' ETF - it's still a diversified ETF... it is literally impossible you lose all 100k.
OP mentioned 5 years - I certainly wouldn't be leaving it ALL in the bank for that long.
Would you be OK if you turn that 100k into 90k at the end of the 5 years? Can you wait another 5 years to buy your house?
The thing is nobody knows, it could take 10 years before the 100k turns into something incredible. It could go up 10% or it could also go down 10% in relative short term. Heck, it could even double, or triple, or turn into half.
Wtf. Why is this ausfinance level idiocy upvoted?
If you lose 100% of your investment in a diversified ETF, we have bigger fucking problems. Like the entire international economy has collapsed level problems.
Edit: Just to be clear. Losing 100% of your investment on a diversified ETF is the same thing as the world markets going to $0. It's never happened, and if it did, losing your investment would be the least of your worries.
In the situation you're talking about.
Where 100k in an ETF --> $0 then your $100k cash will also be worth $0.
Rookie mistake! This is why you should bury LEGUMES in your backyard. Legumes value will never fade!
Because you’re not getting sensible answers out of OP, the largest ever drop in the index is about 60% (GFC and great depression both close). It’s always possible it could go further down but that’s what we have historical precedent for.
Some kind of fraud/theft involving the ETF manager is probably the only way it could possibly happen, where the assets they are claiming back the ETF aren't actually owned. Any halfway decent fund and chances are essentially 0.
If that cash is specifically earmarked for a home deposit, do not invest it. The market has been quite volatile and you’ll risk losing a fair chunk of it and gains in etfs would likely be negligible. Put it into a term deposit for guaranteed interest.
I'd probably just keep it in cash depending on how much you earn and how long it took to save.
I'd also make sure you access the first home owner super saver scheme over the next few years if you're eligible. Allows you to use up to 50k of your super to buy a house. I suspect this will further me expanded in the future too.
There's nothing wrong with investing your house deposit so long as you understand the risks and are fine with it, on average you'll probably end up with more doing so. Unless you specifically need to buy a house at a set time it can delay (or accelerate) when you are able to buy.
Definitely look into the FHSS though, you can put 50k of that 100k into your super over 4 years and earn better interest than a bank with guaranteed returns (note: you may end up dipping into your super if market returns are less than the guaranteed return) and some tax savings on top.
If you do decide to invest, get someone to explain capital gains tax to you. In short, I believe you pay tax on your gains. You get a 50% discount if you’ve held for more than a year. Sooo, buy buy buy and then stop in the lead up to when you’re getting ready to buy. Don’t buy any for the 12 months leading up to it and just hold that as cash.
I’ve gotta say though, I agree with either DHHG or VAS.
People get scared when the market is volatile but look at it this way. This could be the cheapest those shares are going to be so that will amplify your gains.
Bbbuuuutttt with that said, ETFs are less volatile, causing their popularity. You probably won’t see huge gains either, and that’s ok. VAS is also good as it pays dividends
I have 35k in DHHF for 1-2 years. As well as some more in A200, FAIR and IBUY totalling 85k (which was all my money) and I haven't touched them since. Eventually one day I'll cash out and look for a house. So I feel like I'm basically the embodiment of what you're thinking of doing.
Total value dipped when I first bought and total went down about 5k worth in a month or so. Since then seems to fluctuate about 0-1k every week and slowly climbed and now I'm 1K in the +ve on my portfolio.
I'm a big time noob and just one person so take my thoughts with a grain of salt, but here they are anyway: so I'm not sure why people are suggesting against DHHF other than your goals maybe being a bit too short term to warrant such a "risky" investment? If you are willing to cop the loss of 10k or so if the odds fall against you, or just delay your house for a year in some crash scenario I think the investment makes perfect sense and don't really see how it's that risky. If it hit zero and stayed at zero then moneys not going to do you any good anyway. The more realistic loss scenario would just be a slight % loss, which you understand. If anything DHHF is one of the least risky stocks I know of, people are just advising against stocks in general. DHHF reads to me like the noobs way of diversifying their stocks, which makes a lot of sense to do if you are a noob like me. It was easy, and it worked (so far, for me), and I can't think of a good reason it wouldn't work for you as long as you're okay with taking the 10k or so worth of risk.
One thing that I didn't understand when I first bought was tax. I still don't understand it TBH, but basically this is the first financial year ive had to pay tax on my investment and the ATO seems to have autofilled my gains at 2k (which is wrong according to my commsec app) meaning I'd have to pay 50% aka my entire earnings of 1k as tax? Seems BS, and I might have to hire a tax guy which will be more loss of $... So yeah earnings are not as great as it feels at first. But even term deposits pay capital gains so you don't have many options.
I saw u/Warm-Tear658 's comment about tax, so maybe I'm terribly mistaken about something and someone can enlighten me?
*As an update, I did my tax and i was originally withheld 50% of the 2k worth in MANAGED FUND DISTRIBUTIONS (not dividends exactly). But i got 90% back just from accepting the pre-filled amounts and lodging. Total actual tax from this was like $300. Thanks for all your help everyone :)*
Some good news! You only pay tax when you sell and at the same rate as your income tax
So.
Let’s say we buy $10,000 shares today and sell in less than 12 months for $15,000. You’ve made $5000 profit. So you pay tax on the $5000 at your current income tax rate, so let’s say 30% just for easy maths. You pay 30% tax on $5000 = you owe the ATO $1500.
Let’s say you buy $10,000 shares and hold on to them for more than 12 months, let’s say 18 months. Say you sell for $15,000. You still made $5,000, you still pay tax on that, but you get a 50% discount, so you now pay $750 tax.
This changes again _i think_ when you retire as I don’t think you pay capital gains tax in retirement but double check that.
So how much tax you’ll pay depends on how long you’ve held your shares, what your taxable income is and how much money you made
>This changes again i think when you retire as I don’t think you pay capital gains tax in retirement but double check that.
You still pay CGT in retirement from capital gains realised after retirement; you dont pay tax on your super withdrawals.
My taxable income is pennies, didn't realise it wasn't a flat 50%. Makes me feel a bit better thanks :)
(responding to later comments that the retirement thing is about your super)
Yeah I've got a super, its smaller and not going to be touched for a loooong time, I'm only 25 and this DHHF investment was made to be used in 3-30 years (before i get my super)
Is that how it works... if so I think you're right since it would be about the correct 2k value I think. So I did get a bunch of dividends, but I included that in the 1k increase portfolio total value since i keep all the stock and dividend earnings and dividend stocks in the one account.
So the dividends I got were (almost) all invested back into the stock, save for $590 that i just leave sitting in the same account because i forgot to change the dividend plan to re-invest in time for the first quarter.
I've made 1k gain if you include all the stocks i gained through dividends. The actual value of the stocks went down by a fair bit.
Does this mean that if I choose the re-investment plan instead of cashing out dividends. I pay 50% tax on the dividends when the get re-invested AND another 50% on those re-invested stocks when i finally cash out too? so for those dividends to be worth re-investing rather than just letting the cash sit, the stock would have to go UP 200%? just seems ridiculous to me. Might have to change back to just let the dividend cash sit in the account instead.
Just to help you out on this because I think you’ve missed a few points.
When you earn dividends/distributions, they are taxed at your marginal tax rate (this can be offset by franking credits but that is probably best left for another explanation) whether you choose to reinvest them or have them as cash.
Having the dividend reinvestment plan on is equivalent to them paying you in cash and then you buying more shares. These shares are then treated as any other shares would be.
When you sell them, you are charged capital gains tax which is equal to your marginal tax rate. If you’ve held for over a year you get a 50% discount on the tax payable.
Compounding works by ensuring that you reinvest your returns as well. Compounding is an exponential process which underpins the magic of investing.
Here’s an example with numbers based on the fact that you say you have minimal taxable income.
Say you have $10,000 in shares with each share being worth $10. You get a dividend of $247 (random number chosen for easy calculations). Your marginal tax rate is 19% so you have $200 left after tax.
With your $200 you buy 20 shares ($10 each). You wait 10 years and the shares have doubled in value (theoretically, depending on the rate of return) - you sell them for $400. If you’re marginal tax rate is still 19% you would pay $200 x $19 = $38 BUT you get a 50% discount so $19 tax.
These shares also generated more dividends for you over the time you held them.
I'm hearing now that its not quite 50% CGT for me, I toe the line of even making enough to get taxed on income at all. So the base 19% or whatever it is is most likely for me. Point still stands about re-investment plans though, just not quite 200%
Because you decided to dedicate this money for real estate investment, keep them as money in an interest-bearing deposit and reinvest all interest until the time you can buy a property. Other investments may be too risky for your goal. Trying to understand market behaviors over 5 years would be more of a scientific poking exercise before someone invented a crystal ball.
go for something like an AMP term deposit 4.30%p.a it will be safer than putting it into the share market and it locks it away a little better than just putting it into a savings account
Depends on if you think interest rates are going up or not.
Every fixed-term deposit I've looked into in the past 6 years has been objectively worse, just leaving it in a top tier high-interest rate account, assuming you meet all the bonus criteria, will get you better rates and give you the flexibility of taking the money out if you need to pounce on a property months early.
You also pay tax annually which erodes compounding. Over a 5 year period it’s not that bad but something most people ignore when comparing deposit rates with equities.
I started with my house deposit in a managed investment, (colonial fislrst state - imputation fund) as it's had success over a long term period. It's a diversified find already, and invests in a number of top ASX shares.
Still risky, but medium term if might meet your needs.
Term deposits and high interest accounts are good too, if you meet their requirements. Always have a few fingers in a few pies and spread where your money is to reduce risk.
I'll take good care of it for you, 100% profit in the first 2 days!!
Seriously, why would you advertise you have 100k in your bank on the internet, change your internet banking password now!! Oh wait, just give me a sec to get the keystroke logger up and running...
We're about to go into a synchronised global recession, where I think TDs and bonds will outperform equities. I'd suggest parking it in the fixed income market or TD
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Given your timeframe have you looked into the first home savers scheme (FHSS)? It let's you save money inside super, it may not be worth it for the whole deposit but may be worth any additional savings as you can salary sacrifice into it.
https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/super/withdrawing-and-using-your-super/first-home-super-saver-scheme/
Off topic from your specific question I know, so perhaps not helpful but just in case:
I bought a small apartment about 80km outside of the major city I live in for $385K and rent it out. It is negatively geared and I don't plan to sell it. I will use the rental income as part of my retirement. I lived overseas for many years so my super is very low and this is my solution.
I will use it as equity for another property in about 2-5 years time.
The apartment is currently valued at $520K, 5 years after purchase.
Something to consider if you're definitely buying a property in 3.5-5 years is; max out FHSS - 50K, and ING savings maximiser or equivalent 4.3% savings account- up to 100K.
Total deposit up to 150k safe and secure growing at >4% in savings and probably >3.5% in super, with better than typical ETF gains once you include the tax savings from FHSS.
I would consider Good Dividend shares like FMG, Wesfarmers, BHP. I use Vectorvest to help guide me in my share portfolio. They have a cheap trial. Also the ASX offer a share game to helplearn where you get fake money to invest in a trading account and see how you go. It costs nothing to play, you learn a lot
Wait for the housing market to bottom then purchase a home. Don't lock your money away, look around for a good rate. Probably worth paying for some help from a reputable investment advisor.
Why don't you work out if you buy a property, rent it out and also add to it if you can get ahead that way.
100k is a good deposit and despite interest rates going up houses prices only seem to have dipped a bit. So will in all likelihood increase in the future. So getting in know and getting renters to help you get those payments down may prove to be very beneficial.
I think you should buy a property now. Get whatever you can afford. Your investment, irrespective of inflation, is never going to keep up with rising housing costs. We are going to have over 300k people every year moving to Australia to make up for COVID lockdown. You aren't going to get another chance to take advantage of a downturn like we are currently experiencing.
Keep it available - Interest rates going high and will probably keep going. You don't want to miss out on the perfect place in the upcoming sea of Mortgagee sales
5 years a reasonable amount of time. The savings maximiser is liquid só stage 1. Stage 2 is waiting for the market to fall further and moving funds out of savings into the market incrementally or staging, look for fear and depression in the market. Stage 3 is looking to exit with the periscope up from 3.5 to 4.5 year mark.
Can you spot me some cash seeing that you have $100,000 to splurge. I'm not greedy, just a couple of hundred. I'll never own my own home. You can't spend all your money on drugs and expect to have nice things. I will be living in housing in the next couple of months and I'll be doing that forever. I'm only going to work 15 . hours a week because that's all I can take. I've gotta be careful not to over do it because I will end up having another meltdown
Wow I'm so far separated from what normal people are. A 100k house deposit is a lot of money which would have taken a long time to save. Me, I have no chance of ever having that much money to use as a deposit for a house. That's all good though because I'm getting into social housing and I'm aiming to get 15 hours a week work because that's all I can handle at the moment. I'm lucky in the sense that I don't have a woman in my life. So I don't have to answer to nobody or provide for anyone. I'm more than happy being alone for the rest of my life. I don't want anyone. I find it hard enough looking after myself
If it's your first home, put around 12k(or as much as you can without going over the limit of super contributions including from your employer) a year into the FHSS Scheme of your nominated superannuation. Then in 5 years you can take out 50k tax free(not including the returns from super investments that it has made).
The biggest risk is some bastard scamming you, pretending to be a bank like Barkleys and offering you a high interest rate on short term deposit. Be very careful, so many scams
I’d just buy a house in an outer suburb with the 100k, or build. You’ll make a fair amount over 5 years. Sure you’ll pay capital gains when your ready to sell it to buy your own place, but better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick
Warren Buffett had a $1mil bet on offer.
Anyone who could out invest him on a small selection of stocks would win the million.
Someone finally took him up on it, and chose 5 hedge fund stocks that were conglomerations of more hedge funds. So those guys were buying and selling and trying really hard to out perform the market.
Buffet meanwhile just bought S&P 500 shares.
At the end of 10 years, Buffet's S&P stock returned double the hedge fund stock. 150% growth vs 75% growth. Something like that anyway.
That said, investing in the stock market IMO is a long term thing. The shorter term your investment, the higher your risk of being in the middle of a downturn when you need the money back. I think you either put into something like the S&P for 10-15 years which is enough for things to go down and back up, or you don't. You can always sell sooner if things are doing well, but you want to know that you can afford to ride out the market if things go south for a while.
If you have a 100k deposit you should buy a unit to live in it now... that 100k deposit ain't gonna be shit in 5 years time when Real Estate has gone up another 40%.
Put it into silver bullion, and also some gold to hedge. Avoid high interest savers like the plague. Once the financial crisis destroys fiat currencies the only valuable assets will be real tangible assets.
Also I’m not a financial advisor so I don’t recommend this.
Chuck into a ING high interest account. Free money https://www.ing.com.au/savings/savings-maximiser.html 4.5-4.7% return pa I wouldn’t fuck with your house deposit on essentially what is a casino.
Wow, all it took was a bear market to turn people's attitudes of ETF's from a legitimate investment to a 'casino'. I agree that one shouldn't throw their money in shares for a short period of time especially a house deposit but I remember when the bull market was still raging and everyone was advocating for VDHG/DHHF. Times sure have changed since then.
I don't think it's because there's a change from bull to bear market but rather that interest rates have rose so much that keeping money in a high interest account is becoming more and more of a competitive option depending on the situation.
At 4.5% you’re still losing money to inflation in a HISA at the moment, I don’t agree that it’s particularly competitive. In fact before HISAs paid .5% and inflation was about the same, now they pay 4.5% and inflation is 7%. In real terms you’re significantly worse off.
You shouldn't be thinking about inflation when you invest (unless you are trying to gage future interest rate changes or invest in inflation specific products). Your money gets eroded in real terms whether its in HYSA or shares. 4.5% is an excellent risk free return, particularly in such an uncertain market. I don't think anyone can be faulted for taking that option right now.
Agree but think the context that you’re still losing to inflation is important. You’re losing less than cash, or stocks *over the last 6 months*, but there’s nothing to say the market hasn’t now correctly priced future inflation and that your equity returns will far outstrip a HISA or inflation going forward. It’s not a good investment, it’s just the least horrible option in the very short term.
That's true, and irrelevant to this situation. A stock ETF PROBABLY gives a higher return over a long period of time. But if you only have 5 years, you are gambling your house down payment in equities, plain and simple. The ETF gives you a chance to beat inflation and it gives you a chance to lose much more, inflation adjusted, than the CD or HISA also. Also, he has 5 years and inflation appears to be disapating. If inflation stay elevated, then trust me, his stocks are not going to be better, and probably worse.
I agree but think you’re overstating the case. [96% of 5 year periods on the asx200 have had a positive return (1980-2018 sample).](https://www.dimensional.com/au-en/insights/the-uncommon-average) A HISA will guarantee an ~0% real return, but an index will be highly likely to also return a positive result over that timeframe and an expected real return of about 5% (if past returns are similar to future)
Yeah but better than losing 5% in etf over 4 years like me
That’s a possible outcome, but unlikely in the scheme of things. [~80% of 4 year periods from 1980-2018 on the asx300 were positive.](https://www.dimensional.com/au-en/insights/the-uncommon-average) The recent downturn is probably skewing your results.
Yeah I remember way before COVID (long time lurker here and former active poster with new account) when the RBA kept cutting interest rates everyone was looking for any alternative to savings accounts and a lot of people rushed to ETFs and hell even crypto because of that. Now that interest rates have risen along with bank interest people are rushing back to savings accounts since they don't see the volatility of the share market as worth the risk anymore. I think that the bogle heads will continue DCA into ETF's but most people now will stick to savings accounts and term deposits. After all we are humans and we want the safest best bang for our buck. That and with the rising cost of living and inflation is making people are even more risk adverse than normal.
>I remember when the bull market was still raging and everyone was advocating for VDHG/DHHF. Times sure have changed since then. I dont think anyone (sensible) ever said invest in shares if your timeframe is under 5 years and you definitely needed all of the money at the end of that 5 years 5 years is a bit of a grey zone; much under that as a timeframe and shares are not really the right investment, and over 5 years then shares are good choice. 5 years is on the cusp, but if you absolutely need the money then that is a factor For the OP, though, if he can cope with it turning into $80k without it being financially (or emotionally) devastating, then DHHF and similar are certainly reasonable options. Perhaps even split it 50/50
What? Even years ago people would always comment never invest money you may need in the next 5-7 years.
I know right. Depending on OP's risk tolerance, this is arguably one of the best times to consider investing if spare capital is available.
I hear this all the time in the crypto sub, so it definitely depends on your willingness to risk it all for a bit extra.
It is a casino.
It's just people who go with the crowd. Most buy when things are good and sell when they are bad. The exact OPPOSITE of what they should. While it's definitely not what you should be putting short term money into. ETFs are a better investment now than they were last year
100% this. ING does have a 100k limit mind you so could be an idea to split the savings between say this and an account offering similar interest (e.g. Macquarie) As others have said, the share market is a long term gain. You certainly aren’t going to make huge profits in a 5 year timeframe if you were to. Particularly if you are fairly new to it all. Best of luck!
Did I just give sound financial advice ? What is this power ?
You did not. The 4.7% is taxed and inflation is expected to peak at 8%. You have guaranteed OP a net loss of probably around 5%, not "free money ". I suggest you familiarise yourself with section 766B of the corps act and also stop giving anything which may be considered advice because you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Nothing on average, your least worst option is [still an index fund](https://youtu.be/1a3XnvRCcVo), but HISAs are fine for the very short term as long as you’re happy with an expected return of ~0%
Cash will very rarely out perform inflation, especially once adjusted for tax. For 5 years the net purchasing power decrease of cash makes it a poor choice for 100% of ops funds. Most lower risk diversified portfolios should be aiming for around CPI plus 1 or so percent. The historical volatility of these funds varies of course but they usually sit around maximum negative returns of 10% for a single year. Lonsec has good data if youre able to access it. We're also likely going to see a pick up in bond prices this year and indeed some of this is already happening. Were I OP, and I'm not, I'd be looking at a cash and bond heavy portfolio and also be holding something along the lines of 30-50% in Australian and international equities. The things happening in markets today are very unlikely to be the things we're worried about in 5 years. Unless we have a structural change in the way we treat property in this country there's also a good enough chance property prices will rebound.
You said a diversified ETF is essentially the same as a casino, so no I wouldn’t go so far as to describe what you said as good financial advice. To be clear I don’t think he should invest his house deposit in an ETF for a five year time frame, but comparing a diversified ETF to gambling is just bullshit
You left out a lot of caveats. Not sound at all imo.
I read it, couldn't hear anything.
This is terrible advice, people interested in FI / FIRE should definitely not do this
So explain your position then....
5 yr period OP is on the money with some broad global growth based etf. Additional consideration, If you think value does better than growth in inflationary period (generally accepted to be the case) then you might want to look at a value based etf rather than growth reasoning based on... If things go to more to shit and central banks keep interest rates high then its because of inflation, so the actual return is ing rate (4.5% or whatever) - inflation (currently more than that) so those ING accounts are actually losing money in real terms currently. Share market has already priced in current levels of shitness and we are probably looking at recovery next 24 mnths. Assuming that is wrong, ie continued shitness then sharemarket probably treads water (giver or take simliar to a HISA that is losing money each year in real terms) Assuming that is right, ie recovery, ING accounts will drop their rate as rba eases back and sharemarket will increase more than this (10% +)
BOQ offering 4.75% now for under 30s
It's to lure you in to their absolutely trash app which is completely separate to the rest of their bank
It is trash but can't you get a web interface for it so you can manage it on your computer So far I've been just tolerating the app and haven't bothered calling them up to activate the online web laptop one.
I far as I understand, Nope. And don't think you can call the regular BoQ number. All they can do is tell you another number you can call, they can't even transfer you. They really are 2 separate entities
If the OP doesn't touch the account for 5 years there is a risk it may go dormant. May be better to look into a term deposits
So with inflation at current rates you're locking in 3-4% loss over this period, that's sound advice.
When it says deposit 1000 from an external source to qualify does it mean deposit 1000 every month to qualify or does it mean you have to have a minimum of 1000 dollars in the account to qualify. It’s a bit confusing because another criteria is to grow your savings each calendar month which would naturally happen if you put in 1000 a month id assume
After you open a saving maximiser account, you have 2 accounts, including the orange everyday account (default checking account with debit card). For 4.55% interest: -You need to deposit 1000 to either of those accounts every month. -You also need to use your card 5 times in that month by purchasing ( fully settled). -And the money in your your maximiser account needs to be higher than the previous month (not including the interest). But if you transfer that all or some of that 1000 in your maximiser, This step will be covered. So the idea is to grow slowly every month. Compound interest. But obviously the limit is upto $100,000.
This. My strategy with this account is to have part of my salary paid into the account, pay 5 regular monthly payments from my card on the account, set and forget, and finally transfer everything else to the saver.
Typically with high-interest savings accounts, it's that you need to **deposit** x(in this case $1000) per month into the account to keep the bonus, not: just have $1000 in the account. Edit: So with something like ubank, it's 0.10%p.a base rate on a savings account and if you add $200 per month into that account then the bonus is 3.75%p.a. which would give you 3.85%p.a overall. Just double-check with all these and look for the terms and conditions, some will only be introductory rates for like the first 6 months and then they might drop down to 3%.
From what I’m reading it seems like you have to deposit 1000 dollars with your orange everyday account, and when it says “deposit” it means basically anything that I think includes just getting paid by your employer. If you do that, grow your savings account by any amount and make 5 purchases with their card you qualify. But I’m still not sure. The important information section states “deposit atleast $1000 from an external source to any personal ING account in your name (excluding living super, personal loans and orange on)” This seems to me like you don’t have to grow your savings by 1000 but have 1000 dollars of cashflow into you ING accounts each month
You're spot on. I only grow my savings at ING by $20 a month and still get the increased interest rate (as long as you have $1000 incoming into your everyday account and make your 5 transactions).
Yeah I just set mine up. I had a decent chunk in etfs that I pulled in August when it hit a high. So I reckon I’ll keep it in this account until Q2, 2023. If no recesssion I’ll just dump it all back into ETFs
Agreed
Ok 4.5% sounds good and it’s actually now 4.55% but there are a lot of “conditions” including depositing $1000+ every month. Here are all the conditions: Highest variable rate For customers who also have an Orange Everyday bank account and do these things each month: 1. Deposit $1,000+ (from an external account) 2. Make 5+ card purchases (settled, not pending) and 3. Grow their nominated Savings Maximiser balance (excluding interest). Available on one account for balances up to $100,000 with the additional variable rate applied the month after eligibility criteria has been met.
You could lose $100K by the time you are ready to buy. It is best to keep in cash or somewhere with lower risk.
While it is definitely safer in cash and this is a 'high risk' ETF - it's still a diversified ETF... it is literally impossible you lose all 100k. OP mentioned 5 years - I certainly wouldn't be leaving it ALL in the bank for that long.
Would you be OK if you turn that 100k into 90k at the end of the 5 years? Can you wait another 5 years to buy your house? The thing is nobody knows, it could take 10 years before the 100k turns into something incredible. It could go up 10% or it could also go down 10% in relative short term. Heck, it could even double, or triple, or turn into half.
You are right, but you’ll also be turning 100k into less than 90k worth of purchasing power leaving money in a savings account for 5 years
Wtf. Why is this ausfinance level idiocy upvoted? If you lose 100% of your investment in a diversified ETF, we have bigger fucking problems. Like the entire international economy has collapsed level problems. Edit: Just to be clear. Losing 100% of your investment on a diversified ETF is the same thing as the world markets going to $0. It's never happened, and if it did, losing your investment would be the least of your worries.
It took me this much scrolling to see this comment. I'm shocked.
How much loss do you think is acceptable? How much do you think you could lose?
I know that too mate. That risk is not fucking 0% because it is not cash.
In the situation you're talking about. Where 100k in an ETF --> $0 then your $100k cash will also be worth $0. Rookie mistake! This is why you should bury LEGUMES in your backyard. Legumes value will never fade!
In what possible circumstance could you lose 100% of your investment in a diversified ETF? Give one example.
Because you’re not getting sensible answers out of OP, the largest ever drop in the index is about 60% (GFC and great depression both close). It’s always possible it could go further down but that’s what we have historical precedent for.
Some kind of fraud/theft involving the ETF manager is probably the only way it could possibly happen, where the assets they are claiming back the ETF aren't actually owned. Any halfway decent fund and chances are essentially 0.
Do a homework - ask chat GPT.
What is this nonsensical reply?
If that cash is specifically earmarked for a home deposit, do not invest it. The market has been quite volatile and you’ll risk losing a fair chunk of it and gains in etfs would likely be negligible. Put it into a term deposit for guaranteed interest.
Risk - stonk go down
But sumthyme stonk go up!
Uthathyme stonk don't stonk at all
I'd probably just keep it in cash depending on how much you earn and how long it took to save. I'd also make sure you access the first home owner super saver scheme over the next few years if you're eligible. Allows you to use up to 50k of your super to buy a house. I suspect this will further me expanded in the future too.
Buy the house! The returns on that (if you do yoir homework) would be better than investing it in my experience
There's nothing wrong with investing your house deposit so long as you understand the risks and are fine with it, on average you'll probably end up with more doing so. Unless you specifically need to buy a house at a set time it can delay (or accelerate) when you are able to buy. Definitely look into the FHSS though, you can put 50k of that 100k into your super over 4 years and earn better interest than a bank with guaranteed returns (note: you may end up dipping into your super if market returns are less than the guaranteed return) and some tax savings on top.
If you do decide to invest, get someone to explain capital gains tax to you. In short, I believe you pay tax on your gains. You get a 50% discount if you’ve held for more than a year. Sooo, buy buy buy and then stop in the lead up to when you’re getting ready to buy. Don’t buy any for the 12 months leading up to it and just hold that as cash. I’ve gotta say though, I agree with either DHHG or VAS. People get scared when the market is volatile but look at it this way. This could be the cheapest those shares are going to be so that will amplify your gains. Bbbuuuutttt with that said, ETFs are less volatile, causing their popularity. You probably won’t see huge gains either, and that’s ok. VAS is also good as it pays dividends
I have 35k in DHHF for 1-2 years. As well as some more in A200, FAIR and IBUY totalling 85k (which was all my money) and I haven't touched them since. Eventually one day I'll cash out and look for a house. So I feel like I'm basically the embodiment of what you're thinking of doing. Total value dipped when I first bought and total went down about 5k worth in a month or so. Since then seems to fluctuate about 0-1k every week and slowly climbed and now I'm 1K in the +ve on my portfolio. I'm a big time noob and just one person so take my thoughts with a grain of salt, but here they are anyway: so I'm not sure why people are suggesting against DHHF other than your goals maybe being a bit too short term to warrant such a "risky" investment? If you are willing to cop the loss of 10k or so if the odds fall against you, or just delay your house for a year in some crash scenario I think the investment makes perfect sense and don't really see how it's that risky. If it hit zero and stayed at zero then moneys not going to do you any good anyway. The more realistic loss scenario would just be a slight % loss, which you understand. If anything DHHF is one of the least risky stocks I know of, people are just advising against stocks in general. DHHF reads to me like the noobs way of diversifying their stocks, which makes a lot of sense to do if you are a noob like me. It was easy, and it worked (so far, for me), and I can't think of a good reason it wouldn't work for you as long as you're okay with taking the 10k or so worth of risk. One thing that I didn't understand when I first bought was tax. I still don't understand it TBH, but basically this is the first financial year ive had to pay tax on my investment and the ATO seems to have autofilled my gains at 2k (which is wrong according to my commsec app) meaning I'd have to pay 50% aka my entire earnings of 1k as tax? Seems BS, and I might have to hire a tax guy which will be more loss of $... So yeah earnings are not as great as it feels at first. But even term deposits pay capital gains so you don't have many options. I saw u/Warm-Tear658 's comment about tax, so maybe I'm terribly mistaken about something and someone can enlighten me? *As an update, I did my tax and i was originally withheld 50% of the 2k worth in MANAGED FUND DISTRIBUTIONS (not dividends exactly). But i got 90% back just from accepting the pre-filled amounts and lodging. Total actual tax from this was like $300. Thanks for all your help everyone :)*
Some good news! You only pay tax when you sell and at the same rate as your income tax So. Let’s say we buy $10,000 shares today and sell in less than 12 months for $15,000. You’ve made $5000 profit. So you pay tax on the $5000 at your current income tax rate, so let’s say 30% just for easy maths. You pay 30% tax on $5000 = you owe the ATO $1500. Let’s say you buy $10,000 shares and hold on to them for more than 12 months, let’s say 18 months. Say you sell for $15,000. You still made $5,000, you still pay tax on that, but you get a 50% discount, so you now pay $750 tax. This changes again _i think_ when you retire as I don’t think you pay capital gains tax in retirement but double check that. So how much tax you’ll pay depends on how long you’ve held your shares, what your taxable income is and how much money you made
>This changes again i think when you retire as I don’t think you pay capital gains tax in retirement but double check that. You still pay CGT in retirement from capital gains realised after retirement; you dont pay tax on your super withdrawals.
Ah yes, thank you. I knew there was something about super but I wasn’t confident
My taxable income is pennies, didn't realise it wasn't a flat 50%. Makes me feel a bit better thanks :) (responding to later comments that the retirement thing is about your super) Yeah I've got a super, its smaller and not going to be touched for a loooong time, I'm only 25 and this DHHF investment was made to be used in 3-30 years (before i get my super)
Coold the $2k pre-fill possibly be for dividends received?
Is that how it works... if so I think you're right since it would be about the correct 2k value I think. So I did get a bunch of dividends, but I included that in the 1k increase portfolio total value since i keep all the stock and dividend earnings and dividend stocks in the one account. So the dividends I got were (almost) all invested back into the stock, save for $590 that i just leave sitting in the same account because i forgot to change the dividend plan to re-invest in time for the first quarter. I've made 1k gain if you include all the stocks i gained through dividends. The actual value of the stocks went down by a fair bit. Does this mean that if I choose the re-investment plan instead of cashing out dividends. I pay 50% tax on the dividends when the get re-invested AND another 50% on those re-invested stocks when i finally cash out too? so for those dividends to be worth re-investing rather than just letting the cash sit, the stock would have to go UP 200%? just seems ridiculous to me. Might have to change back to just let the dividend cash sit in the account instead.
Just to help you out on this because I think you’ve missed a few points. When you earn dividends/distributions, they are taxed at your marginal tax rate (this can be offset by franking credits but that is probably best left for another explanation) whether you choose to reinvest them or have them as cash. Having the dividend reinvestment plan on is equivalent to them paying you in cash and then you buying more shares. These shares are then treated as any other shares would be. When you sell them, you are charged capital gains tax which is equal to your marginal tax rate. If you’ve held for over a year you get a 50% discount on the tax payable. Compounding works by ensuring that you reinvest your returns as well. Compounding is an exponential process which underpins the magic of investing. Here’s an example with numbers based on the fact that you say you have minimal taxable income. Say you have $10,000 in shares with each share being worth $10. You get a dividend of $247 (random number chosen for easy calculations). Your marginal tax rate is 19% so you have $200 left after tax. With your $200 you buy 20 shares ($10 each). You wait 10 years and the shares have doubled in value (theoretically, depending on the rate of return) - you sell them for $400. If you’re marginal tax rate is still 19% you would pay $200 x $19 = $38 BUT you get a 50% discount so $19 tax. These shares also generated more dividends for you over the time you held them.
Thankyou very much. Makes perfect sense I just didn’t know
I'm hearing now that its not quite 50% CGT for me, I toe the line of even making enough to get taxed on income at all. So the base 19% or whatever it is is most likely for me. Point still stands about re-investment plans though, just not quite 200%
If you sell, don't you have to pay capital gains tax? And this and that tax?
yeah except I'm not cashing out, I've set my dividends to auto-reinvest in the same stock so i can leave it alone and not think about it.
Because you decided to dedicate this money for real estate investment, keep them as money in an interest-bearing deposit and reinvest all interest until the time you can buy a property. Other investments may be too risky for your goal. Trying to understand market behaviors over 5 years would be more of a scientific poking exercise before someone invented a crystal ball.
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you need to be a US citizen/resident to buy those
go for something like an AMP term deposit 4.30%p.a it will be safer than putting it into the share market and it locks it away a little better than just putting it into a savings account
Depends on if you think interest rates are going up or not. Every fixed-term deposit I've looked into in the past 6 years has been objectively worse, just leaving it in a top tier high-interest rate account, assuming you meet all the bonus criteria, will get you better rates and give you the flexibility of taking the money out if you need to pounce on a property months early.
You also pay tax annually which erodes compounding. Over a 5 year period it’s not that bad but something most people ignore when comparing deposit rates with equities.
See an advisor lmao don't get advice from reddit
I started with my house deposit in a managed investment, (colonial fislrst state - imputation fund) as it's had success over a long term period. It's a diversified find already, and invests in a number of top ASX shares. Still risky, but medium term if might meet your needs. Term deposits and high interest accounts are good too, if you meet their requirements. Always have a few fingers in a few pies and spread where your money is to reduce risk.
Stonks the only way to go. Lol joking! It is best not to invest your house deposit in "stonks".
I'll take good care of it for you, 100% profit in the first 2 days!! Seriously, why would you advertise you have 100k in your bank on the internet, change your internet banking password now!! Oh wait, just give me a sec to get the keystroke logger up and running...
We're about to go into a synchronised global recession, where I think TDs and bonds will outperform equities. I'd suggest parking it in the fixed income market or TD
The surest way to lose money is by telling the world you have. Some cunt smarter than you will take it.
I'll stick my neck out... +/- 50% over the next 5 years (lol) Edit - but seriously HISA is the way given your plan
I would be putting 75% in Telstra or Rio Tinto shares and the remainder in Bitcoin or Matic.
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No, don’t do it. Keep it liquid, especially since your time horizon is just 5 years and not 10 or 15
Given your timeframe have you looked into the first home savers scheme (FHSS)? It let's you save money inside super, it may not be worth it for the whole deposit but may be worth any additional savings as you can salary sacrifice into it. https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/super/withdrawing-and-using-your-super/first-home-super-saver-scheme/
Off topic from your specific question I know, so perhaps not helpful but just in case: I bought a small apartment about 80km outside of the major city I live in for $385K and rent it out. It is negatively geared and I don't plan to sell it. I will use the rental income as part of my retirement. I lived overseas for many years so my super is very low and this is my solution. I will use it as equity for another property in about 2-5 years time. The apartment is currently valued at $520K, 5 years after purchase.
Something to consider if you're definitely buying a property in 3.5-5 years is; max out FHSS - 50K, and ING savings maximiser or equivalent 4.3% savings account- up to 100K. Total deposit up to 150k safe and secure growing at >4% in savings and probably >3.5% in super, with better than typical ETF gains once you include the tax savings from FHSS.
You're getting 6% guaranteed in the FHSS atm
If you want the money in 5 years, buy a 5 year U.S. Treasury Note and sleep well with a guaranteed decent return for the whole 5 years..
Take a look at a challenger annuity- pretty good rates at the moment and money is safe
I would consider Good Dividend shares like FMG, Wesfarmers, BHP. I use Vectorvest to help guide me in my share portfolio. They have a cheap trial. Also the ASX offer a share game to helplearn where you get fake money to invest in a trading account and see how you go. It costs nothing to play, you learn a lot
Wait for the housing market to bottom then purchase a home. Don't lock your money away, look around for a good rate. Probably worth paying for some help from a reputable investment advisor.
My portfolio ($100k) has the same value as 18 months ago ($100k). Ave share market performance of 8% would say next year we are due 16% ROI.
S&P all the way
Invest in KENO.
I would buy now. It's unlikely house prices will be lower in a few years than they are now. Inflation will reduce the tru3 value of the $100k too.
Why don't you work out if you buy a property, rent it out and also add to it if you can get ahead that way. 100k is a good deposit and despite interest rates going up houses prices only seem to have dipped a bit. So will in all likelihood increase in the future. So getting in know and getting renters to help you get those payments down may prove to be very beneficial.
I think you should buy a property now. Get whatever you can afford. Your investment, irrespective of inflation, is never going to keep up with rising housing costs. We are going to have over 300k people every year moving to Australia to make up for COVID lockdown. You aren't going to get another chance to take advantage of a downturn like we are currently experiencing.
Don’t do it . High interest savings for you my friend .
Keep it available - Interest rates going high and will probably keep going. You don't want to miss out on the perfect place in the upcoming sea of Mortgagee sales
Buy gold
5 years a reasonable amount of time. The savings maximiser is liquid só stage 1. Stage 2 is waiting for the market to fall further and moving funds out of savings into the market incrementally or staging, look for fear and depression in the market. Stage 3 is looking to exit with the periscope up from 3.5 to 4.5 year mark.
Why not invest it in a house? Best return? It is, afterall, a a house deposit.
Bitcoin?
Can you spot me some cash seeing that you have $100,000 to splurge. I'm not greedy, just a couple of hundred. I'll never own my own home. You can't spend all your money on drugs and expect to have nice things. I will be living in housing in the next couple of months and I'll be doing that forever. I'm only going to work 15 . hours a week because that's all I can take. I've gotta be careful not to over do it because I will end up having another meltdown
Wow I'm so far separated from what normal people are. A 100k house deposit is a lot of money which would have taken a long time to save. Me, I have no chance of ever having that much money to use as a deposit for a house. That's all good though because I'm getting into social housing and I'm aiming to get 15 hours a week work because that's all I can handle at the moment. I'm lucky in the sense that I don't have a woman in my life. So I don't have to answer to nobody or provide for anyone. I'm more than happy being alone for the rest of my life. I don't want anyone. I find it hard enough looking after myself
If it's your first home, put around 12k(or as much as you can without going over the limit of super contributions including from your employer) a year into the FHSS Scheme of your nominated superannuation. Then in 5 years you can take out 50k tax free(not including the returns from super investments that it has made).
The biggest risk is some bastard scamming you, pretending to be a bank like Barkleys and offering you a high interest rate on short term deposit. Be very careful, so many scams
I’d just buy a house in an outer suburb with the 100k, or build. You’ll make a fair amount over 5 years. Sure you’ll pay capital gains when your ready to sell it to buy your own place, but better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick
Warren Buffett had a $1mil bet on offer. Anyone who could out invest him on a small selection of stocks would win the million. Someone finally took him up on it, and chose 5 hedge fund stocks that were conglomerations of more hedge funds. So those guys were buying and selling and trying really hard to out perform the market. Buffet meanwhile just bought S&P 500 shares. At the end of 10 years, Buffet's S&P stock returned double the hedge fund stock. 150% growth vs 75% growth. Something like that anyway. That said, investing in the stock market IMO is a long term thing. The shorter term your investment, the higher your risk of being in the middle of a downturn when you need the money back. I think you either put into something like the S&P for 10-15 years which is enough for things to go down and back up, or you don't. You can always sell sooner if things are doing well, but you want to know that you can afford to ride out the market if things go south for a while.
If you have a 100k deposit you should buy a unit to live in it now... that 100k deposit ain't gonna be shit in 5 years time when Real Estate has gone up another 40%.
Buy a house now. In 5 years the return on the investment will be better than what you would get in shares
If you need the cash in the next 7 years- do not invest it- just hang on to the cash. If you dont need it for more than 7 years, invest it.
Throw it all into XRP crypto
Put it into silver bullion, and also some gold to hedge. Avoid high interest savers like the plague. Once the financial crisis destroys fiat currencies the only valuable assets will be real tangible assets. Also I’m not a financial advisor so I don’t recommend this.