T O P

Seriously.

Seriously.

  • By - WhyFi

MableXeno

## ✨ READ BEFORE COMMENTING ✨ This thread is Coven Only. This means the discussion is being actively moderated, and all comments are reviewed. **Only comments by members of the community are allowed.** If you have landed in this thread from /r/all and you are not a member of this community, your comment will very likely be removed (and will not be approved unless it adds meaningfully to the conversation). WitchesVsPatriarchy takes these measures to stay true to our goal of being a woman-centered sub with a witchy twist, aimed at healing, supporting, and uplifting one another through humor and magic. Thank you for understanding, and blessed be. ✨


jacxy

It seems an underlying problem that just keeps coming up is the shocking prevalence of individuals who don't see others as human. I don't know if this is a lack of empathy or a pattern of decision making. In any event it is scary.


Throw_Away_License

If young children tell us anything, it’s that a lot of what goes into cooperation and empathy must be taught


Freyas_Follower

It's both. There are a lot of people who can't process sympathy or others emotion to the fullest extent possible. It's easy to reason things like "it's not that bad." Social behavior has a LOT of ques developed through social experiences and learning, and affected by various prejiduces. People cam feel sympathy for their friends on their social circle, bit not any "others" or "outsiders." Like, I volunteer at a children's hospital, and a women's shelter. That means, I have no choice but to deal with racists, bigots, addicts, sex workers, criminals, and so forth. An example of learned non-emotion: The amount of people who say things like "well, she's been abused by her husband, and beaten until she had broken bones. Maybe she will learn to stop being a racist. It's not a good thing that it happened, I would rather it happen to them and not someone else" is more than zero. Yet, those same people sympathize with other women in the same scenario, to the point of donating items. It's a learned lack of emotion against one group. People learned the way the Nazis act is super harmful. Therefore, people have learned how to turn their emotions off regarding Nazis because "they deserve it." Then you have the natural lack of empathy, often with abuse as a factor. [Brain damage](https://www.medicaldaily.com/psychopathy-brain-damage-and-empathy-236080) can affect empathy, primarily damage to the frontal lobe. [Child abuse](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/088626002237857) has been shown to affect [empathy](https://healthland.time.com/2013/01/22/how-disasters-and-trauma-can-affect-childrens-empathy/) later in life. A combination of the two can make it really easy to turn off empathy to a specific population for trivial reasons, like "oh, I think he might have said a slur to someone on a bar at some point in his life. Not to me, bit to someone. I mean, he acts like he will." Then combine those two with other disorder, like narcissism and there is a recipe for a disaster.


SevenSpacePiranhas

Neither of those studies say that child abuse causes a lack of empathy into adulthood. The one about incarcerated individuals says that of the 188 prisoners many experienced child abuse and had a lack of empathy towards women, not that the child abuse caused the lack of empathy. Also, you cannot apply statistics about incarcerated individuals that suffered from child abuse with the general population of people abused as children because it is a small portion of a large group of people that self selects for more violent behavior. The other study concludes that children of a certain age group that have been through a natural disaster will behave more generously when re-exposed to images related to that natural disaster. I don't mean to discredit your experience, I agree with some of the things that you said, it's just that the stereotype that abused people abuse others has been really harmful and can prevent people from seeking help.


Thorned_Rose

Pregnancy and mode of birth also affects a person's capacity for empathy, love and pro-bonding social behaviours.


quantumcyberneko

Exactly. And I am pretty sure these guys will ogle two chicks making out or getting freaky and then 15 minutes later post a rant about how GaY mArRiAgE iS a SiN. They want it both ways, and it’s fucking disgusting.


futureswife

I remember a Republican law maker who helped pass anti-trans bills got caught jacking it to trans porn. How these people can fetishize queer women while simultaneously making their lives hell is beyond me


Idesmi

That reminds me something similar: https://gayhomophobe.com


futureswife

Uhh I don't think watching trans porn makes you gay unless you're a woman


Idesmi

Ah no, that isn't what I meant, but hard to guess since I didn't write: the analogy is that prominent figures who actively discriminated homosexual people, turned out to be attracted to men themselves in a blatant way. It's not a perfect analogy, but I think that given the conservative/traditional setting, a heavy sense of guilt is what links these two cases.


GamerLeFay

It's fairly simple (disgusting, but simple): They're genuinely turned on by queer women, and they genuinely believe homosexuality and being transgender are sins. That presents a contradiction they need to work through. But making things worse is that their belief system literally allows for thoughtcrime. Many protestant sects hold that thoughts and feelings can be sins, not just actions. Thus, the politician believes that *he* is sinful for being turned on, even if he never acts on his fetish. Controlling and changing your attractions is difficult (and, let's be real, conservatives aren't interested in looking inward or taking personal responsibility) so he realizes there's only one other way to stop sinning. To get rid of the queer people entirely so they never turn him on again. If changing your gender is illegal, he figures, then there won't be any trans people to "tempt" him and he can be free of his sin.


crystal_visionz

Wow that took off at the end their... your right it is wrong 100% no doubt about it, but staying on the subject of politicians, who have them selves been washed by a church doctrine, that is forced on u in an ALL BOYS!!BOARDING SCHOOL!! FOR 15 YEARS..... causing them to feel guilt if u don't abide by A LAW, IN A BOOK, a certain rule..... that is a lie in the first place...... its been robbed and manipulated to how the ruler of the time sees fit, what he, they or she want, its FUCKED!! .... totally fucked, these politicians tho if u really believe that the majority are for LGBT and Anti Homophobe/ YA KNOW LIKE THE ANTI CHRIST\ Well there not cus if the majority were, then the chances of them studying at all boys or all girl schools and having this CHURCH WAY forced on to them..... literally raped in to them, no doubt these politicians are confused to fuck and no doubt driving each others egos like an F1. like imagine if they truthfully tried to take people in, with what really happened then things may be different but, this is how it wud go without the sugar coating white robes n all the gold.... "ITS STOLEN YEA WE STOLE IT .... AND CHANGED IT...... BUT ITS OK.... WE ARE THE CHURCH.... YOU MUST GIVE UP ALL YOUR POSSESIONS NOW.... YOU! CAN! REPENT!...... GOD WILL SAVE YOU.... YOU MUST DO AS WE SAY" ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME!!! The only reason people follow the bible is because if u didn't back in the medieval times u were known as one to go against the queen and kings ruling that was heresy, and their ruling is their ruling, go against it ur either escorted thru the town and shit thrown at u or hung, beheaded, burnt, exiled the 2nd last I hope hasn't happened in 100s of years but we know that's not reality, and exiled.... shit thats goin on right now doesn't change or hasn't im pretty sure since the church took control basically the worlds fucked and people are confused to fuck about who they are because they are being told for years how they should think and feel and what to think and feel and if it goes against what u really deeply feel is right then ur basically thrown under a bus and left to rot by the majority of society. Sorry I gotta back out for a few hours first thing to read 6.30am.... naaaaa man!


crystal_visionz

Someone just gme a gold award, i cant see who u are but thank you means alot, add me if u want we'll chat 😁


nikkitgirl

They see transness as inherently sexual and often for men’s pleasure. It’s a fundamental piece of Blanchardian typology. They can’t understand that a huge portion of trans sex workers do that work because it’s either the only work they can find or it’s the quickest way to afford the surgeries we need. In many straight men’s eyes we would only do this for their attention. I’ve even known women (almost if not all entirely straight) who also couldn’t get it. The idea that I’m a trans woman because of my deep innate call to and love of womanhood (also medical condition and dysphoria) is foreign to these people. The idea that I want nothing to do with men in a sexual context and honestly they’re pushing their luck in other contexts doesn’t fit in with their ideas of us This is why they consider allowing children to transition to be sexual abuse instead of providing medical treatment. It’s why they assume we’re invading bathrooms for sexual pleasure. It’s why they never consider that after bottom surgery you can’t fuck for several months or that early in feminizing hormones your sex drive plummets. Their heads are so far up their asses with their biases that the fact that we chemically and physically castrate ourselves doesn’t make them think that maybe this isn’t for sex And it’s recycled bigotry, it comes from a similar place to assuming women kissing in public are doing it for men’s amusement and not because they’re drunk at a concert and caught each other’s eyes and thought “holy fuck how did I convince this perfect woman to marry me”.


UselessCat37

Or the classic question to a bi: "oh, so you like threesomes?" Can't even believe how often I heard that one 🙄


Alara-Ni

I love my boyfriend. But I can't tell you how much it hurt to hear that.


hcharron8315

I’m sorry :/


faceinspanish

Yesuuuh that is the bane of online dating for bi women. Can't tell you how many messages I got from people asking if I wanted to have a threesome. Yes, that's the only reason I'm on here, to have sex with you and your wife.


DeadRabbit8813

I don’t know exactly how to phrase this (English is not my first language and my brain isn’t wanting to think in English today for some reason). Is that just a problem with straight couples or have you been approached by lesbian couples too?


faceinspanish

I think it was like 99% straight couples. It was rare to get a message from a lesbian couple. Your English is great btw! Better than a lot of native speakers, haha


DeadRabbit8813

Thank you, I try.


bpcloe

That's the main reason I don't reveal my sexuality to most people. Unicorn Hunters are the fucking worst, grossest, most selfish creeps. The garbage they're willing to put you through. The ways they're willing to manipulate you into fulfilling some pornified, selfish fantasy of theirs. Scarred me for life, for sure.


moonyxpadfoot

Unicorn hunters?


bpcloe

(Usually) straight men looking for bi/demi/pan women for the express purpose of using them to facilitate FFM threesomes. They are willing to fake feelings and manipulate their partners into being little more than a delivery system for their own fantasies. It's super gross and an unhealthy obsession. I've met several, unfortunately. I never felt so inadequate and used than when I realized what was happening to me. They never really cared, I was just a means to an end that had absolutely nothing to do with me. edit: typo


feedmesushi1

The worse ones are when the guy is doing all the talking and are pushy to join without consideration of their partner’s feelings. When I’ve encountered unicorn hunters, usually the girl isn’t really down to do it. It’s selfish and disgusting. I can’t


bpcloe

Fucking RUN the second you get these vibes, ladies. You're nobody's toy. You're a queen who should get the respect you deserve. 👑


feedmesushi1

Thanks queen. I’m putting on the crown. And hell yeah I always run! It sucks because in one situation it ruined a friendship because her man was being pushy. I had to block him because he was being creepy and I felt bad for her because you can tell she didn’t want to and was dating a piece of selfish shit


bpcloe

Hopefully one day all women will learn that being alone is infinitely better than being with a piece of garbage. It's a harder lesson than it should be, but very freeing.


gamingthrowawway2021

Hope men will get the memo too that being alone without being an ass to women is also much better.


TotallyFakeArtist

They go after demisexuals? When?


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WingedLady

Demi is considered under the asexual umbrella, and it's super common for aces to first think they're bi because attraction to men=0, attraction to women=0, and 0=0. So this is actually a surprisingly common phenomenon. Also I'd recommend checking out the asexuality sub. There may be a demi one as well but I'm not sure. But it's a good place to go to learn more. There's also a website called AVEN that you may find helpful for exploring the topic and how it resonates with you. Congratulations on the aha moment!


raNdoMCaPItaLiSatIoN

There is a Demi sub! Y'all should totally check out r/demisexuality


Malcolm_Y

Pardon me for asking, and don't feel any need for you to educate me, but what is the difference between demisexual and pansexual? Afaik, pan is not considered a part of asexual, so is it just that pan folks have a higher sex drive?


WingedLady

Demi sexuals only feel sexual attraction after first developing a strong romantic relationship I think. Pan sexuals are sexually attracted regardless of gender. So really they have very little in common. It has nothing to do with sex drive and everything to do with who you're attracted to. And a note on that: asexuality in general has nothing to do with sex drive. People get that confused a lot. But it's really just being sexually attracted to no one (or only under special circumstances if you look at some of the sub categories under the Ace umbrella like Demis).


Malcolm_Y

Thank you, and again apologies if my question made you or anyone else who saw it uncomfortable. Edit: I think my confusion was based on my ignorance that people could develop a romantic attraction without an element of sexual attraction. In my own personal experience, I would have attributed any attraction absent a sexual attraction to a friendship or idolization situation. I have so much more to learn, I suppose. Edit 2: The main reason I asked is because my best friend of 30 years just came out as gay to me tonight, and as a longtime ally and someone who previously prided myself on my empathy and intuition, I had no idea.


WingedLady

Can't speak for anyone else but respectful questions are fine to me! No one knows everything and asking questions is a fast way to learn or get directions to the learning!


tinyfoxmarbles

Pan is attraction not limited to biological sex, gender or gender identity. Demi is where you Feel sexually attracted to someone you have romantic feelings for (emotional bond). So it’s like midway between ace and sexual. I’m a Demi-pan woman. 😊 I hope this helped. Edit: a phrase


2blehelix

This is a beautiful moment and I’m glad I got to witness it!


Idesmi

It seems it isn't actually that rare. But we're so conditioned to seek romance that few are willing to admit it.


wkitty13

Congratulations! See? Those little whipper-snappers can teach old dogs like us new tricks. My son is trans and there is \*so\* much out there I never even guessed!


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wkitty13

Aw, thank you. I try really hard because I grew up in a religion that would have had me disown him. But I left & I really think it's because he was gonna need me. I completely agree. It is the best thing in the world. ❤️❤️❤️


raNdoMCaPItaLiSatIoN

This is so wholesome. Thanks y'all for sharing. ❤️❤️


TotallyFakeArtist

Im happy you learned something about yourself! :D


gesasage88

Welcome fellow Demisexual! I usually just say BI because it gets really hard to explain to others. But Demi is definitely the thing I have resonated with the most in my life!


Luecleste

This is like reading my dads reaction when I started telling him how there was more than gay straight bi. Listed off demi as an example and he got really excited and understood that it’s not about labels.


bpcloe

When they are incapable of understanding any sexuality but their own. A lot of creepy straight guys I've met like this don't get it. They think that pan and demi are just bi with extra steps that they don't give a shit about. It's what happens when queerness is fetishized. It's just a different way to service a straight person.


wkitty13

When I was in my twenties and realized I was bisexual, my boyfriend was exactly doing that. He would 'surprise' me with girls for the both of us to have sex with, usually friends of his, and I hadn't even had time to understand what that meant or what I wanted from it. It took three different times before I realized what he was doing and I left. For years he said I was his soul mate but I knew from the start that he wasn't. Now he's completely alone and he deserves to be for that and so much more. They sure show their stripes, don't they? I did find a girl after that I had the most fun with ever and finally knew what I meant when I said I was bisexual.


bpcloe

More like the trash taking itself out. 🤣 Sounds like he chased away anyone who might care about him. I'm not normally one to enjoy other's suffering, but it's awfully poetic that those who obsess over using other people eventually run out of people willing to put up with their shit and end up alone.


wkitty13

Absolutely agree! 😂


TotallyFakeArtist

Thats crazy! The more you know!


gesasage88

Turns out a lot of us are strictly monogamous. Like, a threesome would be a hellish nightmare to me. It makes me want to vomit just thinking about it.


bpcloe

Their minds genuinely can't grasp the idea. All they can think about is how badly they want to recreate their favorite porn vids.


moonyxpadfoot

Ew ew ew ew. Thanks for telling me. Now I can avoid these men


Throw_Away_License

In my experience, it means someone (usually a couple) looking for a wlw (bi or gay) to join them as a third The term “unicorn” is thrown around because a woman who’d actually want to participate in that is rare I guess there’s also a subconsciously added aspect that this will be really gratifying for the couple. No question. Once this woman agrees to a threesome it turns out to be tantamount to sex work and is very performative where she fulfills a lot of sexual fantasies... instead of being a third person with boundaries and wants in a situation where everyone has to cooperate and communicate a lot so that everyone feels safe and good


AllThotsAllowed

Late to the party but I can count on one hand how many times I’ve been unicorn hunted (am a pan guy) and they’ve all been unpleasant. Actually one of them led to my weirdest, most disappointing and creepy threesome. The guy acted like he just learned about consent that morning and still didn’t believe in it, so I can’t even imagine the shit you’ve been through, especially if you’ve ever engaged with the hunters.


bpcloe

Oh I've dated one. I was a young, stupid, and impetuous pick-me. It took me a long time to connect the dots between my rapidly declining mental health and the "using me to get a threesome" thing. It was really disgusting and hearing him try to justify it and make sense of it to me only made it worse. I was an object to him and he was willing to make me think he loved me just to get me to do what he wanted. He didn't mean it, it was all performative. I'm glad your experience with them is over. Never let yourself be a tool for others to gratify themselves. You're worth more than that. Give when you feel like giving, and not a second longer. Guard your energy and time like the precious resources they are. 💖


I_Did_What_I_Do

Also the eyeroll is pure fucking magic, who made this?


moonyxpadfoot

its an Instagram post made by mattivx or mattixv. i can't remember the exact name


LoxStock

[mattxiv](https://www.instagram.com/mattxiv/?hl=en) Totally worth the follow


securisteve

I never got the fantasy, even in high school guys I knew would brag about their girlfriend being bi or talk about girls dating one another. I'd ask them "What's the fascination? If they're bi that doesn't mean they're going to include you, if they're lesbian then you're certainly not included in whatever stupid fantasy you have." and I don't remember anyone ever giving me an answer.


Itu_Leona

I’d chalk it up to an extreme ego fantasy that they’re so masculine that they’re irresistible to ALL women, even lesbians. Realistically, I’d think a lesbian being attracted to them miiiiight indicate the complete opposite.


gamingthrowawway2021

In this case they could consider they're maybe not cis men (maybe bigender or similar?) at least if the idea of not being attractive to gay women hurts them so much. This is the case for me but I'd rather work on so much bullshit about myself before I could even be intimate with any woman.


umberink

Wow, that's an angle I hadn't considered before. That makes a lot of sense.


Itu_Leona

I hadn’t considered it either, but that is certainly a lot more compassionate view/standpoint.


IamNotPersephone

Abby Thorn said in her latest video, *Ignorance and Censorship* she had 3/4 girlfriends who were lesbians before she realized she was trans, so at least for one trans woman It was the complete opposite.


Itu_Leona

That would make sense too. Sometimes it takes a pattern before realization/paradigm shifts occurs, but looking back it’s a lot easier to connect the dots.


nikkitgirl

Yeah gun to my head if I had to pick a guy to fuck I’d find the femmest twink I could ideally with him in drag. A big masculine man sounds extra awful


jointheclockwork

I remember reading part of the appeal was (at least subconsciously) the lesbian fantasy allowed men to enjoy watching a woman have sex without the threat of "competition" from another man. Now, this has been some time ago so take that with a grain of salt.


rolz63

“It’s hot uhuhuhuh”


I_Did_What_I_Do

I (cis male that is also hetero) think that it's not about "reality" or the realism of the opportunity to be included. (Indeed the fact that hetero men are, de facto, excluded from the possibility of intercourse, might be more exciting, it being a forbidden or unattainable desire but perhaps that's a bad take on psychology, I dunno) I think it might be that thing in parenthesis above, and simply the fact that two female bodies in a sexual situation is potentially more exciting than just one female body in a sexual situation, and on top of that, porn culture that multiplied that perhaps-a-thing. Might be wrong tho, just a take with four beers in. I haven't reread, please accept my apologies if I wrote something stupid and hurtful


whyamithebadger

I'm a bi woman in a het relationship. My boyfriend loves the thought of me with another woman. But he also understands lesbian sex doesn't exist for his enjoyment, and knows I wouldn't be comfortable having male-gaze-y lesbian sex. I think as long as you know that and you aren't reducing people to a fetish or a stereotype, you're good.


Apidium

I think this is kinda important. Everyone has fantasies. What someone does in their own brain while jacking it is largely not anyone else's buisness. You see this a lot with non-consentual fantasies. Just because someone has a fantasy like that it doesn't mean they want to be assaulted. It doesn't mean that they would enjoy being assaulted. It's literally just a fantasy. The issue comes about when folks act in such a manner that they start coming across as unwantedly vulgar, plain rude and generally start doing harm to others.


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whyamithebadger

I love the eyeroll.


Cuddlesnuffs

A fun scary one is being a Trans, Demi/Pan girl means I am hunted by chasers constantly here online... I remember that I was abused by a member of my dnd group who gaslighted me for years to help the act out their sexual fantasies in 1-1 sessions (which I only did to catch people up if they missed and I usually limited it to voice only) Not to mention the amount of creepy guys that watch way, way too much anime and think trans people are some sort of fetish toy to try and own... I have been called slurs a few times and explaining it to them is pointless.


MultiMarcus

LGBTQ+ people are constantly fetishised by heterosexual people. This is one of the things that really needs to be solved before we can call society accepting.


HonestDeath

Greek mythology


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SCP-3388

One of the signs I picked up on when questioning my gender was that my thoughts were always 'I wish I was a girl so she could potentially want me' rather than 'I wish she was straight/bi so she could potentially want me'.


DeadRabbit8813

Same. I was really into pov lesbian porn as a teenager. I realized later on in life (literally this year) that I was a trans woman. I also should’ve known because I used to cross dress as a teenager too. But I chalked that up to being into humiliation and rebelling against super religious parents.


gingerbreadDrean

I didn't see the "to" in to be a straight man's fantasy and got very upset.


kelskelsea

So so tired of men telling me “that’s hot” when I tell them I’m bi


Luecleste

I have to say, my girlfriend is very refreshing. The only time she tells me she thinks something is hot, is when I take charge. Like, if you don’t call your doctor to make an earlier appointment, I’ll kick your arse kinda thing. She thinks it’s hot. It’s so nice it’s something more random. But then, she’s a bi trans woman so...


Oof-Immidiate-Regret

Artist?


helena_lang_

@mattxiv on instagram


dragonmom1

Amusing that some men say they can't get any women they ask out to actually go out with them...but maybe the problem is that they're bugging all the lesbians! lol


NullOfUndefined

It’s the eye roll that really sends it home


dudecubed

it just so great that every lesbian in tv shows is always young and attractive, what an accurate representation of real women


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quadrotiles

Ugh, my ex. The eye roll is perfect.


mangababe

And this is why a lotta dudes get salty at the idea of asexual and demisexual women. "A queer woman who i cant imagine having fetishy sex with because they arent into that? ANGY"


bigbalooba

anyone else see Louisiana in the shape of the lesbian bit? just me?


HonestDeath

Tasmania


Fraerie

the eye roll is what makes it art :)


5krishnan

I’d say that applies to all women but I get what it means


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Chummersaurus

Whaaat, crazy.


mistersnarkle

And this is why I love my queer ass husband


ACEDT

Chasers are the worst.


nikkitgirl

This is why accepting that it’s ok for me to be an angry d*ke was one of the most liberating feelings in the world. I get to be mad and to prioritize women over men and men’s feelings and nobody gets to stop me and if they have a problem with it who gives a fuck men have nothing to give me that I want that isn’t stolen from the natural state of equality


Knifedogman

Exactly (And of course the opposite is also true, too many straight women fetishize queer men as well)


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